Episode 3: Leverage data for repeat and referral success

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To what is up?

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Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Shred Show Live.

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I am joined by two of the top executives from Ice Mortgage Technology for Episode 3 of What Borrowers Want.

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And ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you what it is going to be one of those episodes that you are absolutely it's going to blow your mind when it comes to data.

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I don't know if there's anybody better than ICE Mortgage Technology.

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And I've got Lisa and Chris to share some of the things that you really need and know when it comes to data.

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Because according to ICE Mortgage Technologies 2023 Borrowers inside Survey, which we've been talking the last couple of episodes, 1/3 of home ownership, our home owners plan to take out an equity loan here in the next year.

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And with the market shift as all of us have seen on the horizon, now it's time to position yourself to be the one that they call and absolutely utilize you and your incredible knowledge in their home ownership journey.

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So Are you ready?

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Ready.

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Ladies and gentlemen, join us for part three of ICE Mortgage Technologies, What borrowers Want with Chris McKinney, VP of Product and Corporate Development and Lisa Fiondella, Vice President of Product Management and Data Analytics.

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As we discuss the importance of data within your business, Ladies and gentlemen, Are you ready?

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Are you ready?

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It is time to shred.

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Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and again, welcome to the Shred Show.

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I cannot tell you how stoked I am to be hanging out with Lisa and Chris this morning.

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I've got to tell you, Lisa's a little nervous.

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I'm going to give her a little jab this morning because we're doing this life.

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She wasn't expecting it, but that's what we love and she's going to bring the fire.

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Let me tell you what, she is about to absolutely crush it.

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She's going to make me and Chris look like amateurs at this.

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So we are so excited to be getting into this conversation of today, and I want to jump into it because there's so much want to cover.

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But before we get into the data side and share everything that we have, I want to get to know these incredible people even more because Chris actually hangs out in my neck of the woods here in Utah and he was even on the slopes recently this week.

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But let's dive into.

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So Lisa, before we get into it, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started in the industry.

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OK Well, first of all, I've got to try and figure out how to match your energy this morning.

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So I'm just trying to get myself ratcheted up here.

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So I've been in the data and analytics space my whole career.

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I was started in it a long time ago before it was actually sort of a cool thing to do and spent my time in some of the in the credit Bureau world for a number of years.

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But mortgage has always been something that's sort of near and dear to my heart.

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I I am a big believer in home ownership and the path to home ownership and so I'm super excited to have the opportunity to help our lender customers and our partners more effectively leverage data to run their businesses.

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So really happy to be here and that's just it.

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And you're brilliant at it.

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You're going to share so many insights with it today.

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So I'm excited to hear your take on it.

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And then of course, we've got Chris, like I said, he is.

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He's the one of the guys who gets to hang out here in the beautiful mountains of Utah when he's not cycling through the roads of New York City.

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Guys be praying for Chris because he's got a jet right after this to another meeting and he's cycling through the streets of New York.

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So we wish he was going to be getting a little GoPro footage, but he's not.

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But Chris, for all those who don't know, you share a little bit about yourself and how you got started in the industry.

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Yeah, Well, thanks a lot Josh.

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I really appreciate it and the opportunity.

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Yeah, my, my, my career really began and kind of capital markets mostly around covering as a journalist very early in my career bond finance and and really capital markets.

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But then principally most of my mortgage background came from the Federal Home Loan Bank.

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So I worked for one of the Federal Home Loan banks of Atlanta, one of the the 12 home loan banks at the time and really cut my teeth there in terms of trying to understand wholesale funding.

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And then of course work with ICE and development of some of the capital markets and certainly the corporate development.

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And now principally working on compliance data and mortgage electronic registration system, which everybody knows is MERS and that's my main area of focus.

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So you actually kind of set this up perfectly, Chris, because when you mentioned data and some of the things you even talk about there and in this episode in particular, we're talking about the importance of data.

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But as everybody knows on this, the word data can mean so many different things.

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And when it comes to helping lenders and all of our mortgage partners on here watching today better understand their borrowers, what type of data do they actually need to be looking for and understand to really be helpful to them.

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Yeah, I, well I I, I think The thing is, is to your point around data, you know it's it's a little bit like a Rorschach lot, right?

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Like everybody sees something different on the data.

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A lot of times it comes from their perspective, a lot of times it comes from the source of the data

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Some of the data we've been looking into is really kind of survey results of consumer expectations around lending and what their demands and interest will be for the the current market markets challenging as we all know and Reds rates went up again yesterday and and as a result of that the the, the ability to be able to convert certainly prospective home buyers into a loan into a home buyer home purchase has become a lot more challenging.

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And and what gives you the edge is data right, is really understanding how that borrower can make it into the right home for them in the right market.

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Lisa and I think this is such a key point is really understanding our borrowers especially as lenders as mortgage professionals, we need to understand our borrowers.

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So what are your thoughts and when it comes to the type of data we need to be looking for and really understand, yeah, no great question.

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And and you know the term know your borrower I think is, is a really important one because at the end of the day, you know we have different market cycles, right.

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And the cycle we're in, the borrower characteristics and what their needs are is very different than it was 1824 months ago.

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And so you know you really have to think about the fact that you know the survey really points this out that a lot of the borrowers today are either first time home borrowers or they're inexperienced or if they're experienced it's been a while.

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So you know they're they're trying to navigate a process they haven't, they don't do every day of the week like the rest of us.

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And so as a lender you really have to get drill into understanding what those borrowers behavior is looks like and and how to navigate that.

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So that's just something that's really I think should be top of mind from a lender point of view at this, you know regardless of what cycle you're in.

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I think that's a really good point, Lisa, and being able to navigate it.

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We do this every single day as mortgage professionals.

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We're in it all the time.

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We see it especially incredible people like yourselves and the entire ICE mortgage technology team.

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This is what we do for a living.

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Our consumers, our clients, our communities, they don't.

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So we have to be the ones to really educate them on this.

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And I want to stay on this kind of topic that you're here on, Lisa, because according to the survey, 2/3 of recent home borrowers, they plan to seek new financing, whether that's he locks home like we credit, reverse mortgage refinances, investment property loans.

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So how can lenders use this data to stay ahead of the competition?

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Because that's the last thing we want is then to go to our competition.

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We wanna be able to make sure we stay in front of them for their next steps on the homeownership journey.

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So how can we use data to ensure that we stay ahead of the competition?

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So I think there's a couple of points there and I'll try and make this as simple and straightforward as possible.

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But first of all, I think that in terms of your customer, you know, I think people get overwhelmed with the whole data journey.

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It's like I have to know everything about everything at any given point in time, otherwise I'm not doing it well.

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And at the end of the day that's not really the answer because you can have two or three or four pieces of information about your borrowers, your Cust let's talk about just existing custmers for a minute and understanding that information at any given point in time can help you better serve them.

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If they're an existing customer and he lock is a a big driver these days, then just continuing to stay in front of your customers who are homeowners who may be interested in you know in a home equity loan is actually a great use of data.

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I know they're my customer, I know they have a home, I know that they don't have a home equity loan with me.

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Let's let's keep the marketing engine moving towards educating towards you know awareness of the products we have so we can continue to bring them into our business in terms of of that particular product line.

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So I think there's you know my recommendation if you're a lender and you're really trying to navigate this market right now is just knowing some key attributes about your borrower and some of their behaviors will help you continue to stay connected with them and they'll they'll look to you when the time comes for them to need whatever that that lending product is.

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Well, this is interesting Chris and I would I kind of want to hear your thoughts here because and even as Eric, Eric Jala mentioned here your access to data and your database should be viewed as an appreciating asset which it it is.

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But the Lisa's point as well is there's so much data out there really helping our, our customers and our clients focus on the right data.

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Chris is probably one of the most important things that we can be helping them do.

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Yeah, I I think that's that that's key Josh And and and think about data as the foundation for education, right.

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I think as we've looked at some of the survey results having an educated borrower who can ask the right questions of the lender.

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So the question is, is how can you as a lender push some of that information out, whether it's through a web portal, through it, some briefings through other educational materials.

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A good example would be like the availability of first time home buyer down payment assistance right with the market where rates are up and appreciation home appreciation is up.

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Some of the borrowers who are entering the market have to stretch and that stretch is going to be informed by understanding what programs they have and the programs are very data-driven.

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Do you fit into the credit box.

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Are you eligible for the program and that that that information is contextually where people have to really start and and and to Lisa's point starting their journey and inform borrower has going to have an informed conversation with the lender and finding the right product.

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Certainly understanding how to navigate in a tricky market, right where you had a market a couple years ago refi very rate driven but not the complexities of trying to look at collateral values and rate and rate movements.

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We saw another one yesterday.

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Are they setting out And then certainly home equity is the same thing.

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What is my collateral value on how much can I withdraw to the extent that I want to get maybe a second loan against some of that and then, you know, the blended rate I'll end up with.

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So I think that there's so much complexity.

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And the way to demystify it is to really look at the core data, the core data sources and then the education and programs that are out there.

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And there's quite a few that can help a borrower get into a home even in this market.

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Well, Chris, I wanna stay with you for a second because both you and Lisa have hit on this because really having access, having access is one thing, but understanding what data is, it truly is critical for the for an organization and for lenders future success, especially within the market.

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But some lenders are true, they're hesitant to even start as Lisa like to say their data journey.

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They're they're still hesitant.

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Why do you think that is and what's going to, what's the biggest risk for a lender if they don't have a data strategy, You know Lisa can weigh on in this.

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I'll start by saying she brought it up earlier.

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Like we all know journey starts you know 1000 steps starts with one and I think legging into this and looking at your infrastructure, So what kind of tools, what reports are you using?

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What are the reports?

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What's the cadence of the reports?

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Are they daily reports, are they real time reports?

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How can we modify some of our strategies based upon that data?

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But I think rather than think about it as an anxiety inducing endeavor, it's giant, it's big data, it's I've got to have a lot of resources, start out small, chunk it out, look at the tools you've got, look at the tools that are provided certainly by your vendor and the vendor packages.

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A lot of these things out-of-the-box can provide really valuable insights and and Lisa you you you can get more into detail around some of those outputs.

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Yeah, I listen I don't think any organization is too too small or you know to to really take advantage of data and make better data-driven decisions for their business.

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I mean you know a great example is we have a we have sort of an out-of-the-box solution that is available to all of our Encompass lenders to really look at their data and their business performance and compare it to their peer group into the market at large.

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And I've been really impressed with some of our lenders who who don't have big data teams.

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You know they may have an analyst if they're lucky and they're using this tool in very interesting ways.

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We have one lender in fact who uses it to actually help sell their programs to their partners and and channel partners.

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And so they use it to demonstrate how they're the type of loans that they're booking, their turn time and and show how they compare to the rest of the market.

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So that their partners and their channels are actually you know they're they're using it as an engagement tool actually.

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And it helps really drive those relationships and ensure that those channel partners are driving the leads and the and the business to them.

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So I thought that's that's just in my view a really fantastic way of using sort of an out-of-the-box tool.

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And and Chris mentioned this, you know any of your application providers, that's one of the questions you should be asking them.

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Like what do you have, you know out-of-the-box that I can use to help me better understand my, my operations, my business performance and use to help me improve, improve those things over time.

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So I think Chris is right on the money there with that that point, well, this is a really interesting point and you said something there, Lisa, that I kind of want to go into a little bit more because there's no you're, there's nobody too small.

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Well, when it comes to this and sometimes it's like, well, you know, are we even big enough?

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Do we need to have the access to this data?

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What do we.

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So when it comes to that in particular, what do both of you consider the minimum that a lender needs to bring to their data journey to stay relevant and to prepare for this future success as we continue to see this market shift?

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Lisa, let's start with you.

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This is not really, you know, I would say that at minimum, you know, intellectual curiosity is is the first step, right, being willing to and ready to ask the questions about what's happening in your business, in your market, in your, you know, with your customers that that will help you understand what's going on at any given point in time.

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From there, you know, you know it's great if some if you can have somebody on your team who's got some analytical skills.

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Surprisingly they show up in very unusual places sometimes, you know it's it's somebody who's working in one part of the business who's not really in an analytic job, but they sort of gravitate towards the tools.

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And then the cool thing today is that there's just some really interesting tools out there that don't cost a lot of money that are fairly easy to use.

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And if you can extract a data set from your applications, like your origination system or whatever it might be and put it in that BI tool, you can do some pretty interesting things to get better visibility.

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I think you have to be honest with yourself about what you're looking at.

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I think you can ask data 1000 questions, but you just don't want to lead the witness, right?

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You don't want it to tell you what I want it to tell me this, but it may not tell you that.

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So you have to be kind of smart about how you ask the questions.

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But that's my guidance.

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I like that a lot and I love the curiosity of it.

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Sometimes I think it can be over like they're not even asking the right questions and that's why ICE Mortgage technology is such an incredible partner.

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So Chris, I know you've got some some other additional insights on this.

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So I want to hear kind of your thoughts here.

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Yeah, I, I, I think what Lisa nailed it and and I I like to think of it as a metaphor of, you know, the data is the map in the territory, right.

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So the data is the territory you're entering into and the insights are really the map that's going to get you to your objective, your business objective.

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And I think most of the lenders, the interest certainly in this environment is what is the right product selection, How can that ball or achieve whatever their objective is right whether it's and and you know some of the data around where they want to do renovation cash out, maybe not so much in the current environment.

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But the key piece of it is that we all know that this is even though thematically the data might show trends and give some insights and some of those might be actionable.

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We're talking about individual transactions, individuals who have a piece of collateral in most cases of property that it's, it's got unique characteristics and that data is more of what I call the micro data.

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So I think it's getting that combination of what are the macro themes that we're following, how do they inform us, how can we have a vision into where we want to be 3-6 months out.

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Certainly looking at the rate environment which is super dynamic and a lot of us in our lifetime have never really seen rates at this level.

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And so how do we react to that?

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But then also it brings us down to the micro, the transaction level and how is that data that's going to form into an application and be converted into a creditworthy borrower.

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So I think every step along the way looking at what the data is telling us, but more importantly, where is it taking us and where are we going and how does that going to make us have better decisions, less risky ones and ultimately end up in the objective of Better Business performance and higher throughput, right, Because people want to see in this market still getting business done.

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And I think that's the challenge.

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I think in the past year we've seen a rate shock that most of us not seen in our lifetime.

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Everybody's trying to come up and figure out what the next step is and the data can give them some comfort level, right, because it can give them some insights.

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And as a result, it's going to, it's going to help the business through this cycle and you mentioned it earlier, it's also going to prep us in for the next cycle, right.

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So you get that borrow we're in, we're going to see rates hopefully move back down next 2-3 years and in that respect sets up a refi opportunity.

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See, and this is what's so exciting for me is because all of us, there's a lot of doom and gloom, there's a lot of uncertainty.

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But if you have the data and if you have an incredible partner like ICE mortgage technology, all this information you're sharing, that's why lenders need a partner like ICE is just because there are so many experts sharing all the valuable information that we're here doing.

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That's that's what the what borrower wants is all about.

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That's what the series is literally intended for is to help all of our mortgage professionals, the mortgage community have the things they need to be successful as you're talking about Chris.

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And that's why it's just it's mind blowing to me that there are still some lenders out there who are just looking for all you know what should we be doing when it's right there in front of them.

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You have great people like ICE mortgage technology and the incredible team sharing it.

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So I wanna as we start to kind of wrap this up.

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Because this has been, it's been so incredibly profound and so simple.

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We haven't talked about anything on here that is like overwhelming for anybody.

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And and Lisa, you mentioned this a little bit earlier is it's baby steps.

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It's one step at a time.

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And Chris, you even alluded to this as well is start asking the questions, get curious about it and then partner with the right people to make sure that you're setting yourself up for the future success.

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Chris literally just mentioned it.

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The one constant in our industry has changed.

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The market shift is already happening.

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Are you positioning yourself now to absolutely take advantage of it or are you going to be behind the 8 ball?

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So to to wrap this up Lisa what what would your advice be for lenders who are looking to really better leverage their data right now.

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Yeah so and listen I was, I was thinking about this data point that came out of the survey and I think it was 46% of survey respondents said that you know having a in person or relationship experience in terms of the home buying journey was really important to them.

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And I think you know we, we and certainly you know at ICE Mortgage technology we're we're all about you know digitization and trying to drive help lenders Dr.

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costs from their process, optimize the customer experience and all that fun stuff.

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But you can't lose sight of the the human experience right.

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And and especially if you think about the dynamics of the first time home buyer or the inexperienced home buyer, the need to make sure that we understand what their challenges are and what the problems are they're trying to solve.

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And then ensure that our entire operation sort of functions that way.

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Our loan officers know how to have the right conversation.

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Chris mentioned earlier, you know introduction to down payment assistance as an example.

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Having that, it's really about using the data to connect the different pieces and parts of the process so that you are operating to the in the most efficient way for the market as the market occurs right based on the circumstances that we live in today versus those six months from now versus those that were six months ago.

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So that's just to me is one of those things that it's, it's the combination of the data of putting the data into action and being really knowledgeable about the current market circumstances.

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And I think that's sort of a winning formula that that is an incredible Chris that's going to be hard to top kind of Lisa kind of just nailed it on the head.

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But no, what is your advice, Chris for those who are really for lenders in particular who are looking to better leverage their data?

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Well, well like Lisa, Lisa did did kind of bring an exclamation point to it.

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But I think I think it's also understanding as as a tool to leverage, right.

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I mean, I think you have people clearly you have processes, but and then you have data and laying the data over and making sure as a discipline people are constantly recycling the data, thinking about what it is and then spreading it across the enterprise, right, Because everybody's going to see something different on that and and and continuingly challenging yourself to see what insights are there.

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So I think as we mentioned earlier, the intellectual curiosity start today, look to the future, stay attentive because the data is going to give you insights to be successful and we're here to provide it where we can and certainly want to see our clients be successful.

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But like a double emphasis both of you perfect like throw the stamp on there and share the absolute the things that we all need to be doing.

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As you just mentioned Chris, that's the best part about this.

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We've shared some incredible insights today.

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Now it's simply going in and again not getting overwhelmed with the process, partnering with incredible companies like Ice Mornings technology, getting the information that's truly going to make you successful in the next few months to come and setting yourself up for future success.

24:07
So Chris, Lisa, this has been an absolutely brilliant conversation.

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Thank you guys so much for your time, for the insights that you have shared.

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This is what we're all about ladies and gentlemen.

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Want to give you the information and the the education that you need to go out there and help your clients and your consumers achieve that dream of homeownership.

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So Lisa, Chris, thank you guys so much.

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Huge shout out to the entire ICE mortgage technology.

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This has been a brilliant conversation.

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Make sure you stay tuned for the next episode of What borrowers want.

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They're going to continue to bring bring the fire, continue to bring all that you need to be successful in the months to come.

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With that, as always, we appreciate you.

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We love you.

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Now it's time for all of you to go shred, go show up, hustle, repeat every day.

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See you.